°µÍø½ûÇø

Well... I believe it said that the car must be registered in the owners name.
If that is the case, I'm s*-out-of-luck.

Have you considered short term rentals ? or just driving a U.S. car in ? You would not require the import cost if your plan is to stay in states that do not require import fees, like Sonora and Baja If you needed to go further you would pay import on the car value, but that would be returned to you when you exited the country with the car on time.

Also the rental of a car is nowhere near the cost of the U.S. rentals. I recently spent $84.65 U.S. for a rental for 3 days. It all depends on your plans. $84.65 is a lot cheaper than buying a car and paying a local to help with the paperwork. Which it seems would be a bad option anyway. There are options depending on your requirements.If your requirements are fixed then yes you are correct you are ' SOL'

To the original poster:  NO, your dog does not have to leave with you.  Your dog does not have a passport nor a tourist visa card that expires in 180 days and must be relinquished.  It is perfectly acceptable to leave your dog with a friend or in a kennel when you travel out of Mexico.  If and when you do take your dog out of the country, you will go through the normal procedure of obtaining a health cert. in Mexico and following any other rules required by the country you are entering.  No problema.

I have a question about this hotel paid in full business when entering Belize.  Are you good folks saying  that Belize will not let you enter the country without this?  We are going to Belize in January for four nights prior to our 180 days in Mexico being up (but close to the end of it) and have our lodging booked, but since it is a guest house, they are only requiring one night's deposit via Paypal.  Who would try to keep us out of Belize and why?  We plan to take a bus from Chetumal into Belize.  Please explain further as this will be our first time doing this, and we do not want to make any mistakes.

Thank you!

The Belizean agents can make full pay an issue. The country does not require 3 full pay days, but the agents are pretty free to do this, and they have done this to me.  The first time we went there we were stuck at the border for two hours while the agent decided if he would let us in. I complained to the country, and the next time the hotel required full pay for our time. It was a hotel not a boarding house so that might make a difference. Coming in on a bus might make a difference also, we were in a car. But you can't change being American so be prepared to perhaps pay a subtle bribe. 

It's not a major deal except for extra cost. If you are going on to Ambergris cay then the border tourist advisers can be helpful. It's the agents that can get problematic. I have done it three times and I have it down pretty pat. Be friendly but not timid , The tourist desk can help and the porter who comes out to greet you has a lot of juice.  If they do require full pay the tourist desk will help you get in touch with the place you are staying in and facilitate doing that. You won't be stuck at the border, but you might get involved in a sort of little manipulation dance.

Will you be on a tour ? that can make a difference also. If you will be on a tour ask your tour guide how it's handled.

Nope, no tour.  We will be in Corozal for four nights and plan to spend one day on Ambergris Caye, taking the ferry over. 

I wonder if it will make a difference that we lived in Belize for 18 months (mid 2011 until early 2013) and have the tourist stamps to prove it.  We can definitely make a case for visiting friends.  And I did read online that it's good to ask for 30 days when filling out the immigration form, so it doesn't look like you're only going to be in the country long enough to renew your Mexican tourist visa.

I may just ask the guest house owner to charge us the full amount when she runs the deposit, so I'll have a receipt for our entire stay. 

Just can't get over why they would want to keep tourist dollars out of the country (and getting our exit fees on our way out).  It seems that they are working against their best interests.  Belize is definitely a country of many contradictions, I can vouch for that

Thanks for the info!

I don't think it's about what's best for the country as a whole, or they wouldn't have deconstructed one of the oldest artifacts to make roads. At the border it's about lining pockets pretty much. The agent that was giving us so much flack was the son of someone of importance, he was not well liked because he jammed up the process, yet he had connections so he could do more or less what he decided to do. I didn't see him last time, so perhaps he floated to the top, or I just lucked out. The 30 days by the way is pretty much automatic. The agents attitude was that people were using Belize just to renew their visa, not to visit. I explained that if you go there for one hour or 2 weeks you are still spending money in Belize and that had no impact on him.

As you may know in Belize it's about money.

Paying the full bill may alleviate any hitches, showing them you lived there once will likely have no effect.

One thing we as foreigners must remember: just because we have money and are willing to spend it here, we still don't deserve special treatment. It's their country and they run it the way they wish.

Just butting in for history's sake.

Years ago, Belize decided it would stake it's future on tourism and what you see today is the result of that.

Years ago, Mexico lived in denial that it depended a lot on what American tourists, temporary and permanent residents and business travelers spent in dollars in Mexico.  You'd have to have applied for the equivalent of residente permanente in the early 80's to understand how great the difference is.  It was called FM2 and I believe it cost my company over 1000 US dollars a year in fees for me to work in Saltillo.

A few years back, I don't know how many, it did a 180 degree turn and made it a lot easier for Americans to come to Mexico and spend their dollars here.

In 2013, Mexico implemented rules that made it even easier and less costly for Americans to spend their dollars here. 

I'll bet Mexico is coming out ahead and Belize falling behind.

Good point.  It's also good to remember that local officials have all the autonomy they can get away with.

If you complain to the higher ups, you may end up worse off than if you just went along.

Personally, I've never had a problem if I went in with a smile on my face asking polite, pertinent questions.  It's always best to find out what you need well before you actually need it.  That's for Mexico.  I don't know about Belize.

I agree, it is their country and how they run it is their business. What I am pointing out is how tourist can get along with how that country is run. What problems they might encounter, and how those problems might be handled.  I also agree with gudgrief about how they are falling behind. Mexico has built clean beautiful beaches in some areas, tourists visit old historic structures . Belize tore down one of the oldest temples in the world to make roads. and barely maintains beach areas at all.   Economic decisions, for the better or worse.

I just wonder if anyone who has had problems at the border is going into Belize via bus.  So far, the only stories I have heard have been from people driving a car in.  Seems like the officials might not want to detain an entire busload while they haggle with individual passengers.

I could certainly be wrong, but I am just wondering.  If anyone has had problem entering Belize who was going via "chicken bus" instead of by private car, I'd love to hear your story.

Thanks...

I would like to point out that it is not the end of the world to have to go to Belize or Guatemala. Both countries have beautiful things to see; enjoy the change and the trip! Why all this wailing and gnashing of teeth? Of course, HAVING to do something instead of choosing to do so does change one's mind set, but mind sets can be changed too! And one can stay cheaply in Belize. I understand them; they don't want to be used as a run in run out place with no other value or interest. Rather annoying. And surely one would want to go to the States occasionally to see family and friends and stock up on special articles? (Like cosmetics, for women) And if you have the income required, why not just apply for one of the residence visas? They are happy to see dollars flowing into the economy; they just don't want bums, illegal workers, criminal activity, etc. They don't need burdens, that is all.....

I would like to point out that it is not the end of the world to have to go to Belize or Guatemala. Both countries have beautiful things to see; enjoy the change and the trip! Why all this wailing and gnashing of teeth? Of course, HAVING to do something instead of choosing to do so does change one's mind set, but mind sets can be changed too! And one can stay cheaply in Belize. I understand them; they don't want to be used as a run in run out place with no other value or interest. Rather annoying. And surely one would want to go to the States occasionally to see family and friends and stock up on special articles? (Like cosmetics, for women) And if you have the income required, why not just apply for one of the residence visas? They are happy to see dollars flowing into the economy; they just don't want bums, illegal workers, criminal activity, etc. They don't need burdens, that is all.....

Syrian Refugees?!?!?! 😄😄😄

Now, serious topics.  I strongly suggest you make one or two trips on a six month tourist visa. If you decide you want to spend more time without having to renew every (leave MX) six months you can apply for Residente Temporal visa., good for one to four years. During the initial application process you can pay for one to four years.  After four years as a Residente Temporal you can apply for a Residente Permanente visa

The initial request for either of the two visas is initiated at the MX embassy or the nearest MX consulate in the US.  As stated, normally you have to have had a Residente Temporal for four years before applying for Permanente. A friend of mine was granted the right, by a MX consular officer to apply for Permanente without the four year Temporal requirement. This was based on presenting documents indicating monthly income way above the threshold.

Once, you are given the paperwork to apply for the appropriate visa, you have 30 days to return to MX and ten days to initiate the application at your local INM office. There is one in Merida

I agree, worrying about those poor Syrians is rather odd, offensive and paranoiac even!! Not to mention irrational, prejudiced and lacking in compassion. And of course they don't go to Mexico - they need to work and support their families, because they have lost everything. All of this should be obvious. I am surprised that the inquirer is not concerned about the rampant organized crime in Mexico, that would be more rational. However, it rarely affects gringos, especially if they do not have profitable businesses.

I have a detail kind of question for the residential permits. If one applies for such a permit in Europe, it has to be done at the consulate nearest one's legal residence. In my case, that would be difficult. Can it be done at any Mexican consulate or embassy? Would one need to establish some kind of residency before doing so? (Like renting an apartment, receiving bills at that address.) And there have been  previous discussions, I believe - I participate in other forums too - about the income required to qualify. It is around $1800 - $2000 a month, is that correct?

Thank you for the clarifications. They might help a lot of people. And please, participants, open your minds and hearts to the suffering people of the world, instead of judging and fearing them! That way, you can serve good instead of evil!

You can apply at any consulate. Their main interest is your income. They will ask for proof of that income and bank statements, They want to see your passport , bank statements for a year , paperwork showing your are entitled to your SSI and or pension, and  2 passport sized pictures. Other than a basic form or two that's it. You can quickly determine what forms are needed on their web site. You must then return to mexico.
There you will provide a standard paper visa you got on the plane. You tell the aduana you are changing , you will have a sticker from the consulate in your passport.They will mark your paper visa with Caja or change and 30 days written on it. That is what you take to INM where things get more complicated and more paperwork, money as well as "infant" sized photos will be required. That can take several weeks.

Thank you, those details are quite useful - to many, I am sure. And what about the income required?

1500 USD  / month seems to be  the limit. With a tourist visa, no income requirement.

Thanks. I thought it was more. That could be good news to many....

I'm going to be in Merida in January, my first City to investigate in my search for a foreign city to live in for a few years.  Is there any sense, or is it possible, to use this visit as a start date for permanent residency?  How does that program work?
Should I visit my local Mexican Consulate in Phoenix and bring them the documents stated above?  Is the residency consecutive or cumulative?
Thank you,
Ally

You have to start the process in a Mexican consulate in the US and get a visa sticker in your passport.  I don't know how long that process takes these days but, it took me a couple of months in 2008.  What with the holidays coming up, I doubt you can make it happen.

Once that's done, you'll have to stop at the INM office in Merida, I assume there is one there, and submit more paperwork that takes at least a week to process and get your actual temporary resident visa back in the form of an ID Card.  If somehow you do manage to get that far and can't wait for that process to finish, you need a permit to leave Mexico and return one time.  That shouldn't be a problem but I'm guessing it's it's only for a short period.  Are you really that ready to move?

Given that you have to start the process from the US, what's the rush?

It's not that I sense a rush, but I do have a curiosity about recinding my American citizen status.  This topic is by no means more than curious at this point. But I want to remove myself from US taxation and possible complete bank freezes as more time passes. I'm not sure hoW this affects my SS income, so that is how green I am to this subject.  Please don't fault me because I'm new to this forum.  I'm here to learn from people who have made informed decisions.

Renouncing your citizenship is a very serious matter. No one does that, it has nothing to do with getting a residence permit! And you would have to have citizenship elsewhere, that is not a simple matter! This appears to be about much more than being an °µÍø½ûÇø!

You are not giving up your American citizenship. You are trying to get a visa. I think first you need to just go in and out of Mexico visiting several times before you think about trying to remain.

The current time span for getting a sticker for residency from the consulate is  from 5-6 hours to a day. I would just figure it takes a day.

You are not going to be able to escape IRS. You will have to pay taxes if you are above the threshold and earned that money in the U.S. If you want to escape the U.S. completely you need to talk to a lawyer, and renounce your citizenship at a U.S. consulate.

It seems you're jumping way ahead of where things are.

Getting Mexican residence does not mean giving up US citizenship.

You can even retain American citizenship with no problem AND after 5 years or so start the process of getting Mexican citizenship if there are any advantages.  That may take several years.  You can have both at the same time.

And remember - Mexico and the States have extradition treaties! So it is not a good place to escape to!

"But I want to remove myself from US taxation and possible complete bank freezes as more time passes. I'm not sure hoW this affects my SS income, "

It'll cost you to give up your citizenship. Somewhere around 2,300 usd. Your SS won't be affected. However, there are some countries that SS will not send checks to. You will have to reply to a yearly letter from the SS regarding income earned and not taxed by SS and letting them know that you're still alive.

if u renounce your us citizenship you lose ss and you pay to us govt.50% of your savings and need to find acountry that will take .millionares are trying it and no go to much taxs to pay

" Is there any sense, or is it possible, to use this visit as a start date for permanent residency?  How does that program work?"

MOST of the time, you need to do 4 years of 'Temporary' before you can apply for permanent.
Although, I heard of people with a lot of money in the bank (like maybe 200k?), who got permanent right off the bat. It's up to the person at the Consulate.

HOWEVER: The are differences in Owning a car/Registering a Car between the
'Temporary' and 'Permanent'. With a 'Permanent', you can NOT have a USA Registered/Plated
car or a USA license in Mexico. So I believe, if you are 'Permanent', you need to get a Mexican license and have your car Registered in Mexico.

So I don't know if you are bringing a car in or what, but if you plan to have a car, the 'Car Issue' might help determine if you want to start with a 'Temporary' and 'Permanent'.
Outside of the Car issues, you can probably live the way you want on a 'Temporary'.
Maybe someone can comment of what you still can NOT do with 'just' a  'Temporary'.

Time spent on a 'Tourist' visa doesn't count.
The 4 years start ONCE you get a 'Temporary Resident'.
In order to get a 'Temporary Resident', you need:
1) Show 12 months of bank statements showing an INCOME of $1500+/- USD
OR
2) Show 12 months of bank statements showing a BALANCE of at lease $105,000+/- USD
I believe they also consider other equity/investments in the above number.

They want to know you can support yourself, and hopefully spend lots of pesos in Mexico.

"if u renounce your us citizenship you lose ss and you pay to us govt.50% of your savings and need to find acountry that will take .millionares are trying it and no go to much taxs to pay"

No, you keep your SS but lose your Medicare simply because you no longer live in the US. As for taxes, I'd like to see something from IRS.
Taxes are some, if not the only, reason why many renounce their US citizenship. Why would you renounce your citizenship and pay more taxes.

P.S.
Check out: San Miguel de Allende
Great city, and considerably cooler and less humid than Merida and many other areas.
Maybe someone here lives in San Miguel de Allende... and can give some inside poop?

SMA is one of many options in Mexico. Numerous people have already talked extensively about SMA . You will find a gold mine of information about the +'s and - 's of SMA in old posts.

I'm not sure why anyone would apply for permanent residency in Mexico before visiting for six months on a tourist visa and making sure that Mexico is for you.  It is not for everyone. 

Case in point:  my husband and I moved to Belize.  We thought we might like to obtain permanent residency, which in Belize requires you live in the country for a minimum of one year with only two weeks out of the country.  By the time our one year was up, we were already sure we did not want to be permanent residents of Belize.  We love many things about the country, but it was not the right fit for us long-term, forever.  Until you actually live in a place day to day, there's really no way to know this. 

We are still on tourist visa in Mexico, and while we love this country and find it a better fit for us than Belize for several reasons, we are still not convinced we want to be permanent residents, or even stay for more than six months at a time, so that is why we would not go through the trouble of applying for even temporary residency until we are really sure. 

JeanFinney, your point is well made back a few pages about traveling to Belize or Guatemala, or even to the US before the tourist visa expiration.  We are looking forward to our trip to Belize  and view it not as a burden but as yet another adventure as we plan to visit an area we've never been to in Belize (Corozal) as well as visit our friends in Ambergris Caye, where we lived in the past.  Going to the US would be great too, to visit family, but because our tourist visa expiration falls in late January, we do not want to go back into winter and freeze our azzes off after being used to tropical weather.  We will go to the US in the spring or early summer instead.   

Cheers!

Sensible statements, although the SS issue still seems up in the air? I wonder why they would pay to someone who has renounced citizenship? And you would need an alternative citizenship would you not? Otherwise you would be stateless and paperless, in a worse situation than the poor Syrian refugees the inquirer fears so much! People born into dual citizenship would not have a problem but others would be in jeopardy, I imagine. The US would take half your savings? wow. You would also lose the protection of a powerful country, and the facility of travel not offered by, say, a Belize passport. And it is true, many countries tax heavily - so it is certainly not an easy option, unless perhaps you can cruise into EU citizenship of some kind (and the taxes are high there). But acquiring citizenship is extremely difficult in most cases. It would seem simpler to just bite the bullet and pay your taxes! And this is not a forum for such matters. There are others like escape artist (if it still exists, I have not heard from them for a while, and I was subscribed) who deal or dealt with offshore etc. But with the rise of global terrorism offshore is being scrutinized if not suppressed and large money transfers are carefully studied. No easy solutions in sight as far as I can see!

Non citizens have collected social security almost since the beginning.

I suppose it is something you pay into so you deserve to get it back! Basically a kind of bank, I guess...

Perhaps the original poster didn't understand that to gain citizenship in another country, one does not have to renounce one's US citizenship?  I know several °µÍø½ûÇøs who stayed in Belize long enough and met all the requirements to gain Belizean citizenship, but they kept their US or Canadian citizenship as well.  I would never renounce my citizenship, but I know there are a few folks who do. 

Just to be clear, it is completely unnecessary to renounce one's original citizenship to obtain permanent residency status or even citizenship in another country.  When I was in Belize and had a blog, I did get a question once that indicated that the person didn't understand that obtaining Belizean citizenship did not require giving up one's original citizenship. 

I know there are many people who are not happy with the way things are going in the US right now for a variety of reasons, but things may change and make the US more desirable to you in the future (or at least certain state(s).  So I wouldn't think anyone would want to give up their freedom to return one day.

It is indeed a very serious decision.