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The battery packs are far too expensive, so the cars are expensive, but the worst will also be the best.

Battery technology is improving at an amazing speed, especially in energy density and changing times. The latest offerings from the UK and China are talking about an 80% charge in minutes, or even seconds.

When this happens, older packs will be worthless, thus your car will be hopelessly outdated and of far lower value.

Too late Fred, done and dusted and smiling all the way to the bank as well as a new and bigger car than the old SUV. Battery tech has come a long way especially BYD blade batteries, they come with an 8 year warranty but who knows in 8 years if that could/would or should be honoured.

The other thing is we get rid of a car after 5/6 years and buy a new one, 90% of our driving is local and simply plug it in when you get home, for no cost, no brainer Fred.

All cars lose value as soon as you drive them out the showroom door and depreciate big time over the years.

A habit we can afford and enjoy.

Cheers, Steve.

Too late Fred, done and dusted and smiling all the way to the bank as well as a new and bigger car than the old SUV. Battery tech has come a long way especially BYD blade batteries, they come with an 8 year warranty but who knows in 8 years if that could/would or should be honoured.
The other thing is we get rid of a car after 5/6 years and buy a new one, 90% of our driving is local and simply plug it in when you get home, for no cost, no brainer Fred.
All cars lose value as soon as you drive them out the showroom door and depreciate big time over the years.
A habit we can afford and enjoy.
Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

I believe I think in a very different way, possibly because my Yorkshire upbringing was never to waste money, partially my use of vehicles, and partially because I no longer enjoy driving.

I bought a Luxio ten years ago, it has 80,000km on the clock and runs very nicely.

It's used daily, but mostly for short runs.

That makes an EV pointless at this moment. However, aside from that, no EV I have seen so far can match its ICE equivalent for initial cost and running costs unless you exceed a given mileage over the vehicle's life.

We run 2 ebikes. They were cheap and cost nothing to charge. The lack of required maintenance and saved fuel means they will cost less than petrol machines over the 3 years I expect them to live.

The other advantage, as you mentioned, is no visits to petrol stations.

My car gets a fill up about once a month, so that's not a big deal.

LOL Fred, most here know you think very differently but we all have as members a chance to share here.

As a tight assed Aussie I was raised not to waste money and led to me becoming somewhat wealthy so a new car every 5/6 years to me is neither your ass nor your elbow, My philosophy is simple, I ain't going to take it with me when I'm pushing up the daisies.

I think you misunderstand what we purchased. It is PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle).

Electric with a petrol engine,,,,, range anxiety was why I went this way. All our local running around we might do 100KMs per day and all on batteries, get home and plug it into the over sized solar system and make use of the power generated by the sun. FREE.

As you already own 2 EV bikes you should be up on these facts especially if you have a home solar system.

We do longer trips and once the batteries get down to 25% the ICE kicks in and recharges the batteries and if needed can also deliver power to the drive train if the EV side of things is not enough. Ah the wonders of modern tech.

Thing is Fred we all have choices and simply this was ours.

Cheers, Steve.

You are correct, my reading comprehension failed me in epic style.

Your choice requires readers to understand your personal preferences, financial position, and your likes and dislikes.

However, I maintain my position on EVs - They are bad idea today, but will probably be a good idea in the future.

Yet you have 2 EV bikes and claim they cost nothing to charge Fred and will only last 3 years, that to me seems a false economy. Do you charge them on the grid (costs money) or are you wise enough to have stand alone solar?

Personal choice or a logical well researched decision? Thanks to the Gods we all have free will.

Cheers, Steve.

Yet you have 2 EV bikes and claim they cost nothing to charge Fred and will only last 3 years, that to me seems a false economy. Do you charge them on the grid (costs money) or are you wise enough to have stand alone solar?
Personal choice or a logical well researched decision? Thanks to the Gods we all have free will.

Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

2 little piles of junk. Both gel batteries, and both so cheap I didn't check my account before I bought them.

At three years, they will have cost sod all and a bit to own and run. That translates to around 100 USD per year all in for personal transport.

I can live with that.

All good Fred, choice no different to our 2 ICE bikes but they require registration, emission testing etc. but don't block the traffic as they travel with the flow or pass it. I'm surprised you can get 3 years out of a gel battery, well done.

Buying a new car? The BYD 6 that is PHEV was actually cheaper than purchasing an equivalent size ICE style set of wheels with all the European appointments and throw in the tech on top of that was months of research and comparisons and reality? A no brainer. Large solar system = free charging, math dictates a saving of around US 100 bucks a month not buying fuel.

Upgrading to a new car this made a lot of sense.

Cheers, Steve.

Horses for courses.

My wife's bike requires a license to drive, registration, and a tiny tax payment every year. Mine is officially a pedal bike, so needs nothing.

Mine is lighter and almost as fast as hers, and they look very similar. When it comes to new ones, she's likely to get one like mine.

@Fred

When are you going to congratulate Steve for purchasing a Chinese vehicle Fred?

Morning Midas

Zodiac Maritime

Fremantle Highway

Were transport car carriers that caught on fire.

The Felicity Ace caught on fire and sunk with 4,000 cars.

Horses for courses? No Fred. If one makes copious amounts of power from the sun an EV makes sense, the old saying? Use it or lose it. Local running around for us cost nothing to charge and longer trips it flicks over to an ICE thus no range anxiety and an equivalent or cheaper price than a conventional ICE set of wheels. 2 very different beasts and not horses for courses, far from it.

What are you going to do when it's time to upgrade your old car? I bet you look at PHEV's or a full EV given the price China is building them for,,,,,,, your favourite country.

Cheers, Steve.

Gasoline, Diesel or Hybrid choice of cars depends on your income, price or expected driving mileage.

In the US the average life of cars has been 150,000 miles and 13 years. In the US an eight year warranty of the electric cars will have zero resale value for many people if they are an average driver.

So factored in with the total cost should be the almost zero resale value after eight years.

My Toyota Camry with over 300,000 miles was replace by a Lexus and I sold the Lexus with 160,00 miles on it when I moved to the Philippines for a nice price.

So my operating cost was low considering everything.

Gasoline, Diesel or Hybrid choice of cars depends on your income, price or expected driving mileage.
In the US the average life of cars has been 150,000 miles and 13 years. In the US an eight year warranty of the electric cars will have zero resale value for many people if they are an average driver.

So factored in with the total cost should be the almost zero resale value after eight years.

My Toyota Camry with over 300,000 miles was replace by a Lexus and I sold the Lexus with 160,00 miles on it when I moved to the Philippines for a nice price.

So my operating cost was low considering everything. - @Enzyte Bob

ye gods. I have done 80k in 10 years

@FredWhen are you going to congratulate Steve for purchasing a Chinese vehicle Fred? - @Lotus Eater

Whatever works best for him is fine. Personally, I don't like them.

Mine is Japanese but built here

Depreciation is a fact of life Bob unless it's shares/property etc. and we all hope to actually make money at those levels, I care little the depreciation on a set of wheels as it's a fact of life and will simply buy new in 5/6 years and offload the old.

In the interim most of our running around is zero emissions and no fuel costs.and in 5/6 years may be comfortable going full EV as the tech and range will increase, only time will tell.

Thing is we spent more on our stand alone solar system than a new car and keen to make use of the suns rays.

Cheers, Steve.

Ye Gods Fred our old "Chinese" SUV is 6 years old and driven a whole 35,000 klicks, big deal, time for a new one and we all have choices, ours was a PHEV and so far very happy and dearly hope I don't have to replace a gel battery every 2/3 years. Will stick with the petrol motorbikes.

Japanese vehicle built in Indonesia is most likely Chinese and Mexican supplied components but if it works for you? Who am I to argue.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl said . . .Depreciation is a fact of life Bob

**

I would not buy a used electric car that is 8 years old and facing battery replacement, matter of fact not one that is four years old either.

Maybe batteries get damaged from an auto accident and need replacement. Checking price on your model at Bard AI is $11,800.

Others from Bard AI:

Nisson 8-15 thousand USD

Tesla $13-20 thousand USD

Hyundai $13,000 $13,000 USD

It's a good thing you are a low mileage driver, so it would make sense for you.

Agree Bob, I would never buy a S/H EV No matter age or klicks travelled. A new car for us is chicken sh1t financially and this one suits our needs. Would you buy a S/H A/C unit? would you buy a new A/C or refrigerator that is not fuel efficient? Inverter type? A S/H pair of sneakers?

Your Bard AI is talking sh1t and all the vehicles mentioned come in different shapes and sizes so is generalising at best.

Cheers, Steve.

Ye Gods Fred our old "Chinese" SUV is 6 years old and driven a whole 35,000 klicks, big deal, time for a new one and we all have choices, ours was a PHEV and so far very happy and dearly hope I don't have to replace a gel battery every 2/3 years. Will stick with the petrol motorbikes.Japanese vehicle built in Indonesia is most likely Chinese and Mexican supplied components but if it works for you? Who am I to argue.Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

It's a box on wheels that is just useful enough to own. I don't actually want it, but I have to at the moment.

As long as it works Fred.

Cheers, Steve.

I have banged on about EV's for a long time with pros and cons, the biggest being range anxiety and recharge availability but we finally took the plunge and actually went for a PHEV (plug-in electric vehicle), took delivery a few weeks ago and sort of kicking myself for not going there sooner.Went for a BYD Sealion 6 and a larger suv than our 6 Y/O Haima S5 that has been a great car once the early bugs were ironed out but the BYD is a step up both in appointments and the tech is mind-blowing, like yesterday Ben and I were having lunch in a nice Japanese restaurant and before he paid the bill he was on his phone and I asked him what he was doing, let's go, told me on the way back to the car that was 3 floors up and 2/3 hundred metres away that he turned on the A/C in the car,,,,, got to the car and absolute silence,,,,,, opened the door and cold inside, all the tech aside including talking to the car asking it to do things our general trips and running around are under 100 klicks all on battery in silence, get home and plug it into the solar system, has smart charging so can regulate itself when there is excess or low power in our solar system, pretty clever and for our local running around we used to spend on average P4 to 5K per month on fuel now nada. Longer trips we are back to fuel costs but a rare happening for us.Little things like when we got home we had our phones on the dual charging mats and when Ben turned off the car was a msg on the dash not to forget our phones.As for reliability etc. only time will tell but in the mean time we are enjoying.Cheers, Steve. - @bigpearl

I think that's fantastic, Steve. You've captured the full energy life cyle there! I always felt that the ultimate setup to reduce one's carbon footprint would be an EV or PHEV with one's own solar array.  Smart move to go for the plug hybrid. My personal opinion on full EV's up to now has been.. Ugh..  too expensive , too focused on ridiculous performance (Lucid Air, Tesla Plaid anyone?)  and they use a lot of rare minerals - just so people can virtue signal they have done their part. Having said that, we did ride in a couple EV's in Vietnam in 2024 on fairly long rides and were quite impressed. Seems they are quickly adopting the technology there..

As an engineering-focused person, I have loved hybrid technology ever since Toyota introduced them to the market in the late 90's and my mother bought one (at age 80, haha). Such an elegant solution to recapture stop and go losses, especially in the urban environment and up and down those steep Bay Area hills. And efficient use of resources. Toyota have stated they can build 6 plug hybrids or 90 regular hybrid vehicles with the same resources as one long-range EV and the overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as a single battery electric vehicle.  If I had to buy a new car a PHEV would probably be my choice too.

While I have no full EV's, my home in the Southwest US is on dedicated solar and I have two Trek e-bikes - a full carbon performance road bike and a commuter for errands, both purchased in the last couple years and a blast to ride, this led to rarely riding the motorcycle anymore so it's being sold. And my 10 year old Audi only goes 3K miles in 6 months (including an annual road trip), so no need to replace that before I sell everything and move back overseas again. So it has been a slow evolution for me.

In the PH I have not purchased any electric vehicles yet, but will the next time something needs to be replaced. Financial constraints dictate wearing things out first. Our vehicles are all used and paid for - the diesel pickup is needed to reliably get up to our mountain place and we have a few motorbikes, mine is for local island rides with my woman and the boys each have one one to get to school. The latter could easily be replaced with e-bikes at some point. My Cannondale pedal bike is what gets me to the coffee shop and gym most mornings.

So bravo on your commitment!  I think it's exciting to see how fast the technology is evolving and coming to market, and price points really beginning to come down. Probably have to thank the Chinese for much of that - they really drove solar PV prices down over the past decade, and are now bringing EV's to the masses, but my hat is off to Elon for commercializing the technology in the first place. Huge effort and risk to drive mass adoption.  America is still pretty good at innovation I think.

Thanks pnw, wise objective observations as always.

Price point for what you get is more than competitive @P 1.55M compared to many ICE vehicles.

Euro design and appointment as well as high tech to me made it a no brainer.

Have to say pnw that I'm not ready for the leap to a full EV even though we make plenty of power I still suffer the range anxiety and like the 2 options hence the PHEV.

For our local running around it's essentially an EV and plug in when home and the power is from the sun.

If you ever get to looking when you settle the BYD 6 is worth a look at and while not a sports car is more than fast enough.

Cheers, Steve.

@Fred

I am curious as to your thoughts on solar systems especially stand alone installations that are self sufficient and require no fossil fuels, no power outages etc.

Yes the cost can be high initially but is recouped in 4 to 6 years.

Your thoughts Fred?

Cheers, Steve.