°µÍø½ûÇø

I would have stopped at a distance to see where his anger would lead.  If he bacame physical with the woman I would step in.  I would not be doing this because a woman was involved.  I might also step in if it was 2 men in a similar situation.

I have always been told to keep out of Viet affairs of this nature. Which goes completely against my grain. Being ex military and prison officer.

No doubt a difficult question which is hard to answer truthfully.

In theory, I think one should intervene if one sees the situation is getting worse.
What is acceptable/tolerable, chance for it to get worse is all individual- and situational- based.

However, the chance for one not doing anything in such a situation is the highest danger, in my opinion.

Research after research have shown that one tends to be paralyzed in such unusual situation that witnesses themselves lull into thinking that it is OK not intervene/or rationalize all sorts of excuses for not doing anything (even this inaction leads to death of the victims). This situation is well known in psychology. It even has a name: the Bystander Effect.



Here is a recent case


But readers would be wise not to think that they would react differently than the 18 bystanders.

So I would like to think that one should act sooner rather than later. Again, it is easy for me to say when I am not in the situation myself.

I also have extenive first aid trainin and always carry a first aid kit with me. But again I have been told by all my Viet friends do not get involved. Because I am a foreigner and if police get involved I can be help responsible. Also when they don't speak English its an imposible situation. I have never stood by in my own country. But I am listening to my mates here. Again it kills me to not do something when I know I can.

IÂ’d do just what the locals were doing more than likely. Ignore the situation and keep going on with my business. However if the guy had a rock or stick in his hand and was using it at the point I was going by, then IÂ’d stop and holler something at him. Maybe that would distract him long enough for him to get his senses back. Does it go against my grain and upbringing to do it that way, yes. Why, would I not want to jump in and get involved? Their family supports system is evidently broke, and trying to fix it on a sidewalk is way above my capabilities. More important question, was Burger King open?

On another note. Why is it when touchy subjects like this come up on the site few, if any locals post any replies. Input on threads like these from a native speaker that fully understands the customs of the country would be immeasurable. It would also put some meaning into what they are currently posting now about wanting to help °µÍø½ûÇøs living in Vietnam.

Yeah burger king is open at the airport. Departure level.

Budman1 wrote:

IÂ’d do just what the locals were doing more than likely. Ignore the situation and keep going on with my business. However if the guy had a rock or stick in his hand and was using it at the point I was going by, then IÂ’d stop and holler something at him. Maybe that would distract him long enough for him to get his senses back. Does it go against my grain and upbringing to do it that way, yes. Why, would I not want to jump in and get involved? Their family supports system is evidently broke, and trying to fix it on a sidewalk is way above my capabilities. More important question, was Burger King open?

Yes I saw it for myself almost a month ago now. Almost had the urge to buy one, but didn't want to look like a fat American salvating in line.

To the original question, if its just verbal yelling, none of my business. If it's getting physical... I stand by and try to witness it and don't get directly involved so the Cong An can take my report since I know some Vietnamese.

But I am not sure I can stop someone physically or not. It just depends on the person and how confident I would feel about my ability. At the very least, I try to protect the child.

I like to say I would truly help, but frankly, I could easily drive away and hope it resolves itself.

Budman1 wrote:

On another note. Why is it when touchy subjects like this come up on the site few, if any locals post any replies. Input on threads like these from a native speaker that fully understands the customs of the country would be immeasurable. It would also put some meaning into what they are currently posting now about wanting to help °µÍø½ûÇøs living in Vietnam.

The reason I didn't want to post anything on this subject is mostly because I share the same suggestion as your local friends: stay out of it. I would call the police if things get physical. But if the man is just verbally abusive, nobody will do anything even if you call them. You'll also be considered nosy in that case. This kind of things are considered family matters in Vietnam.

I appreciate all the views. I have been advised in the distant past that what happens between a couple is their business.

Now for the part I waited to tell. I got off my motor-scooter and positiobed myself between the woman and the man. I was wearing my helmet, and side camera.

A very large Viet Kieu (overseas VN) got off his m/cycle and yelled at the man in Vietnamese. Being dumb,the make party hit out at the VK who then returned the compliment and the man went down on to the street.

The VK sat on him, and called the police. I helped the wife to her feet. She went to comfort her daughter.

The look on the daughters face said it all - just another incident.

The Cong An arrived and they 'cuffed the man on the floor to the fence. He said he was attacked by the VK. I explained, through a Third Party, I had a video of everything.

The Cong An viewed my recording and said it was self-defence. Unfortunately he decided to keep my 32 Gig chip. For a few days.

The man was arrested and charged with attacking his wife, causing a disturbance and attacking the VK and pushing me.

The woman and daughter were driven home and a truck picked  the arrested man's bike up.

I explained to the VK I was on my way to an urgent appointment and would go to the police station later. He said he would say I most likely got lost.

As I said there were factors that changed the situation from 'do not get involved', IMO: (a) It was clearly spousal abuse and extreme verbal that led to an assault; (b) there was a child present; (c) the female was under extreme duress and near collapse; (d) it was in a public place.

The danger is that if you end up in the fight the Cong An has a habit of charging/fining everyone on the grounds the attacked party shouldn't fight back.

I managed to catch my flight to BMT and made it home OK.

Fordy7 wrote:

I also have extenive first aid trainin and always carry a first aid kit with me. But again I have been told by all my Viet friends do not get involved. Because I am a foreigner and if police get involved I can be help responsible...

IMO you should do nothing heroic because you can end up picking up the medical tab.

Sure, help the body out of harms way but not much else.

I was in BMT a couple of years ago and this car was going hesitantly along/ He signalled to turn right, saw he was wrong, and he then turned left.

Two young women saw his signal and were about to over take the man when he turned left in front of them.

Their motorcycle hit the car which flipped them over the hood, with their bike, and one woman ended up wrapped around a lamp post and the other kissing a steel door her bike crashed into.

I saw everything from about 40metres from behind the impact. I marked out the pints on the street and then saw the locals trying to straighten the girls bodies to get them in a cab for hospital.

After an hour the CGST arrived, it was at 23.30H, and the car driver tried to slip the cop a very large amount of money. I said yelled no and a local repeated what I said  in VN. The cop returned the money.

Their investigation took about an hour and we all drifted off.

Next day, after I had transferred my video to a CD, I visited the cops with a business friend and met the investigators.

I was surprised at how nearly they got the story right from examining the scene. I showed them my video and they correctly decided that the car driver was at fault.

The two (good looking) women recovered, and they were paid compensation for all their hospital costs and lost pay as well as for a new motor-scooter. Turned out one was a niece of a woman who works for me.

You'll also be considered nosy

Yup, that is how the locals, including the authorities, will see it if any of us step in to such occurrences. 

Intervention here, unlike at home, often lead to escalation.  Authoritative figures, if they happen to stumble onto it, will only watch and hope that the couple will come to their senses.  But if they don't and things begin to get physical, then, the entire family get hauled down to the station for some serious lessons on social interactions.

Therefore, if I have nothing better to do, I would observe.  I won't even bother to contact the police because, once necessary, the locals are right on top of it; and they would be in much better positions for all that follows: interviews, reports, testimonies...

Howie

Before i got  here i was asked no ordered repeatedly by my boss not to get involved in anything as i have a knack for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. First week i was here i went to Phun Ngu Lau to check out the backpacker district and asked for a lime and soda at a very popular destination there. I had just sat down and started to have my drink when all hell broke lose next to me. A Caucasian guy was getting his ass handed to him by another set of Caucasian males. He was on the ground bleeding from his mouth and nose and his VN gf was screaming.

Sometimes it's just instinctive and i got up and i cant remember hitting anybody but tried to break the fight away. After the attackers fled the military police came from no where and marched me the victim and his gf to an adjacent building and we were being interrogated in the stairway.

After a few minutes they decided the boy was in bad shape and let him go but thankfully for me his gf explained i was trying to help so they let me off too. I didn't realize i had a few cuts and bruises until i showered later that evening! Turned out he was a French national.

Hey guys,

That reminds me, sometimes such scenes are also distractions for more sinister plots too.  Therefore, is best that we just observe.

Also, as Sir Alex can attest to, police interview here is no walk in the park.  This is still a totalitarian society.

Howie

All good points here. I love the idea of that camera Jaitch. Where did you get it and how obvious is it?

I agree Howie, better not get involved unless it's a case like Jaitch mentioned where a woman or a child is in imminent danger and no locals are around to help.

Hey guys,

This morning, I came across a situation very similar to the one that Jaich encountered:  I was having coffee with my local friends, when I turned around and saw an older man laying on the sidewalk, next to his bicycle.  I wondered aloud, "WTF, that guy could be having a stroke?"

The most senior among my friends, a local city official stopped me and said, "Let it be...  His family might give you fits if you get involved."  Then, instead of taking some other form of actions, the rest of the bankers and administrators began to tell me stories about how other locals got into troubles for being good Samaritans: people get sued by the families of those they helped after being injured, guys getting their asses kicked because the families of the hit-and-run victims thought that they were the perpetrators...

Well, after about an hour and hundreds of people who just looked and went right on by, the guy's nephew came and helped him up.  It turned out that he was too drunk.  Yup, at 7 am.  Imagine that.

Howie

Ha ha that's a happy ending.

Them wedding party's start at 5AM and the guys slug down as much rice wine as they can as you well know are a major cause of deaths down here in the Delta, and after what I've read it's pretty prevalent though out the country side of the whole of Vietnam. Sad but true.

I picked up my expensive 32 Gig SD chip from the Cong An yesterday.

They said it was very useful in resolving lies from fact.

As a result they, and not the courts, decided that the woman and child can remain in their home; the husband will pay them money so they can live there; he is barred (by virtue of having his name removed from the register for the house) from being at the house for 45 days and he is to use his motorcycle to get to his job and then return it after work to be kept at the Cong An compound for 60 days.

The senior Cong An guy proudly said he was university educated and had, as he put it, 'the smarts', so this matter had been dealt with efficiently and with humanity.

He said he was pleased the community acted in support of the woman and child.

Do you remember the story of a CGST being attacked on the street? QUESTION: Would you have gone to his aid?

Jaitch wrote:

a CGST being attacked on the street? QUESTION: Would you have gone to his aid?

I highly recommend that you guys don't get into such mixes.  I did and a couple of "gangsters" came for me with machettes.  Luckily, I was away from my store and my neighbors rallied around my female employees.

It took the district police chief, a local crime boss and my personal appearance in one of the cities darkest alleys to straighten that mess out.  It was not fun, nor was it pleasant.  So, don't do it gang.   

Common criminals here don't turn on the cops, only the hardcore ones do.  And, even the hardest of them all don't present much; but it is their organizations that can give you a pretty bad day.

Howie