°µÍø½ûÇø

Her first mistake was to change her VND into $$  -  you get ZERO interest for $$ and about 7.6% for VND for one year deposits, we have four of these accounts going at 1B each, generating about 305million a year in interest..........Gold is not an investment unless you are doing Kgs of gold, Gold has always only been a hedge against inflation.  That said, do a search, I have posted what we do in buying gold, we buy in Cambodia and bring it into Vietnam - huge difference in prices.  One poster hit the nail on the head, Gold is for saving for the future, up until a few years ago gold was used exclusively to purchase land and houses, not the case anymore 'cept in the villages.  The Govt made a law that demanding Gold for land was not lawful.  Example in 1995 gold was about $330 an ounce in Vietnam, we would buy in Cambodia, bring it back to Vietnam and thats what we bought all our land with, but we bought at $230 an ounce so saved a lot when buying 1B dong in gold. (but only 10,000 Dong a $$)

Why invest directly in actual gold when you can invest in ETF's like GLD that track the price of gold directly.  One thing that differentiates commodity ETFs from common stocks in corporations is that they seem to have finite topside limits while corporate values seem able to continue to appreciate over a much longer period.  Even Jeff Bezos of Amazon, reputedly the world's richest man,  cautioned recently that most companies have about a 30 year life.  That said there is still plenty of room to run for most common stocks while commodities tend to trade back and forth in a range.  Besides that, gold like other commodities, never pays dividends.

If you do want to speculate in gold, it is better to be a trader and try hitting the peaks and bottoms rather than being a buy and hold investor.  If you are working with enough funds, small fluctuations can yield substantial profits.  The ETFs have a huge liquidity advantage over physical gold.  They may have an online trading fee but it is mostly less than $10US and the sale is effectively instantaneous.  Physical gold can take a while to sell.

tunnelrat69 wrote:

Gold has always only been a hedge against inflation.

I see it that way too.
And a little real gold as a hedge if the worst would happen (e.g. collapse of the financial system because of war or hacker).


By the way, there were good times when the money supply had to be deposited with gold and not every country could print new money at will.

Some people in my country recently wanted to reintroduce this more or less (full money initiative).  Unfortunately the people voted against it.

In Cambodia it is sold the same weight measure as in Vietnam  Tael, and Chi  like 50 chi is about than 7.4 ounces, if you buy Jewelry, you can wear it without scrutiny, if you buy bars, and carry it in, limit I think is 300 grams per person, three of us can carry about a  kg in bar, plus jewelry around the neck and wrists..........I see the difference about $110 an ounce savings.  a little more perspective is 300grams is almost 10 troy ounces of Gold, 32 troy ounces to a kg.  You're not going to get rich this way, but it is profitable over the months, years.    helps pay for my vacations  (haha)

For those interested in buying Gold in Saigon, the only place we sell is in Cho Lon, they can turn over Gold faster than you can blink your eyes, they will melt the jewelry almost as soon as they buy it, some of those family shops have been in business over a 100 years.

I see that tunnelrat is Mr. T in more ways than one.

On a side note, I remember watching a documentary about people who smuggle gold in their stomachs. One trick the customs agents use is to ask the suspected smuggler to jump off a chair. The weight of the gold can cause severe internal problems.

@tunnelrat,
Do you know the how much one loses on the jewelry ( do to labor etc.) over raw gold?

With worldwide equity markets unstable, spot prices have risen about 5% over the last 30 days.  Today is predicted to be another tough day on the  NYSE which opens in about 1 hour.  I sold almost all equities in my IRA earlier this month and intend to make a small investment in an issue called GLDM (SPDR Gold MiniShares).  I expect that the gold shops in HCMC have already raised sell prices, but there should still be plenty more room for appreciation, especially if worldwide equity markets really go in the tank.

Those of you with wives who want to hold gold, now may be the time to make her happy. 

THIGV wrote:

Those of you with wives who want to hold gold, now may be the time to make her happy. 

Only problem is they don't want to give it up when it's a good time to sell.

I did a lot of day trading before I came to  Vietnam- now it's night trading.

Jim-Minh wrote:

Only problem is they don't want to give it up when it's a good time to sell.

That's the good thing about the Gold ETF's.  No sentimental attachment.

As I understand it, VN is never a good place to buy gold because the markup is so high. Far better to go to Cambodia and buy. You apparently lose money from jump street if you buy here in VN. And  as I read about it, VN holds more gold then any country in the world. I have debated how best to invest here. Gold seems like the safest way. But where in the heck do you store it. Banks only insure accounts up to about $3,000. So that surely is not good.

Vagabondone wrote:

But where in the heck do you store it. Banks only insure accounts up to about $3,000. So that surely is not good.

Vietnamese have been hiding their gold securely for years in places that no one can find but within their reach, none of them was in a bank vault.

I am sure that is very true. Probably nothing that compares to their love of gold then their distrust of banks. I certainly would not want to put much in a bank here. Seems odd that they are willing to pay a premium price for the gold though. You start out in the hole from the outset. Especially in this age of the internet. The question is HOW do they store it SECURELY?

I had a safe deposit box at Sacombank.

There was a 4-sided contract.
And after each opening of the safe deposit box tehe box was resealed.

I never worried that anything would be stolen.

Those who always have concerns about security should provide facts that prove the opposite.

Vagabondone wrote:

The question is HOW do they store it SECURELY?

In a steel box placed behind the wall, or in the ground, or in the false bottom of the wardrobe.  I'm sure there are many similar places; those were the ones I actually saw.

Andy Passenger wrote:

There was a 4-sided contract.
And after each opening of the safe deposit box tehe box was resealed.

I never worried that anything would be stolen.

Those who always have concerns about security should provide facts that prove the opposite.

It's not the real security that make some people distrust banks, it's their perception of security and their need for secrecy that make them keeping their money close at hand.  Many Italians are the same way.  My husband's British grandmother was the same way. 

Grandma never became US citizen, never paid tax in the US even though she lived there for almost 50 years,  bought and sold dozens properties in two countries without involving the bank.  This was before computer became an essential part of life.

It is not the security provided inside the bank that worries anyone Vietnamese. Nor most others. Store, say $10,000 grand in any one bank and it you are only protected up to about the equivalent of $3,000. Those are the facts. Whereas in America each account is protected to $250,000.

Chi Ciambella, I assumed you had spent time in Italy with that handle. May I ask where you lived there. I too lived there and loved it.

The actual VND deposit protection as of last year was 75m VND. That includes P&I. So the four part safe deposit may make some have a warm felling about banks in VN. But it is akin to pissing your pants while wearing a black suit " You get a warm feeling but no one notices"

Banks here are okay to store money that you may need for a monthly budget or so. But beyond that your at risk.

Vagabondone wrote:

Chi Ciambella, I assumed you had spent time in Italy with that handle. May I ask where you lived there. I too lived there and loved it.

We lived inside the wall of Città di Castello, a small Umbrian town, for 7 years.  The house was erected in 1189 so it's over 800 years old when I bought and renovated the interior.  Couldn't alter the structure because it's protected by some city ordinance.  We absolutely loved living there.

Oh, I lived in the North just outside Venice. Indeed, they have the strangest rules on renovation. Some of those old farmhouses especially are about to fall down. But you can not change the exterior. But it does help preserve that old Italian style. They also tax you based on the paint on the exterior. That is why you see so many not painted....they avoid the tax. And why there are no closets, but wardrobes. If you build a closet into the house it is taxed as a room. But I have been down to you neck of the woods several times.

VN govt restricted/confifiscated all bank deposits post 75 i think??? so no one trusts them.

Now my family give money to my gf and family ( to get with the 21st century, bank cards etc) instantly withdrawn so they r much more likely to be robbed and murdered by their friends, family, neighbours who know they keep their gold under the piano. Marvellous.

the most common serious crime in VN

Gold is strictly controlled by the Vietnamese government through decree. Only government authorized dealers can buy or sell the tael which is 999 gold and weights 37.5 grams. Prices to buy and sell are in line with international prices. You cannot use gold in Vietnam for transactions anymore. Because of the control of the gold market you can be assured that buying Tael at an authorized government dealer is the real thing. There is no problem cashing your gold in. Just have some big, deep, secure pockets when you collect the cash and walk out the door. I seriously doubt whether there is such a thing as cheap gold anywhere. Buying gold in another country and bringing it into Vietnam to cash in seems very problematic to me.

Can one still buy gold in Cambodia?   Why was it cheaper?

Seasteader wrote:

Gold is strictly controlled by the Vietnamese government through decree. Only government authorized dealers can buy or sell the tael which is 999 gold and weights 37.5 grams. Prices to buy and sell are in line with international prices. You cannot use gold in Vietnam for transactions anymore. Because of the control of the gold market you can be assured that buying Tael at an authorized government dealer is the real thing. There is no problem cashing your gold in. Just have some big, deep, secure pockets when you collect the cash and walk out the door. I seriously doubt whether there is such a thing as cheap gold anywhere. Buying gold in another country and bringing it into Vietnam to cash in seems very problematic to me.

I remember a guy who sold a block of land in D1 for millions of dollars of gold. He did really well as the price of gold went up dramatically just after he sold the land.

Seasteader wrote:

Gold is strictly controlled by the Vietnamese government through decree. Only government authorized dealers can buy or sell the tael which is 999 gold and weights 37.5 grams. Prices to buy and sell are in line with international prices. You cannot use gold in Vietnam for transactions anymore. Because of the control of the gold market you can be assured that buying Tael at an authorized government dealer is the real thing. There is no problem cashing your gold in. Just have some big, deep, secure pockets when you collect the cash and walk out the door. I seriously doubt whether there is such a thing as cheap gold anywhere. Buying gold in another country and bringing it into Vietnam to cash in seems very problematic to me.

Why 'problematic'? You can bring in 300 grams w/o declaration, that is $16,800 today, or just nine 1-ounce coins.
You can only bring in $5000 currency w/o declaration. Bringing gold ups your overall limit.

Seasteader wrote:

You cannot use gold in Vietnam for transactions anymore.

colinoscapee wrote:

I remember a guy who sold a block of land in D1 for millions of dollars of gold. He did really well as the price of gold went up dramatically just after he sold the land.

Whatever the government says, using gold in real estate transactions is THE preferable method among the locals and happens every day -- in the past, in the present time, and I'll bet everything I own that it'll continue in the future.

It's not legal to transact real estate in gold. In the past you could pay for your property purchases by gold, but not anymore. At present, property prices are quoted in VN dong only. Just do a search for any property for sale in Vietnam and they're all quoted in VN dong. If buyer and seller privately agreed on price in gold, then we'd never know, but the official transact must always be in dong.

tdt-uae wrote:

It's not legal to transact real estate in gold. In the past you could pay for your property purchases by gold, but not anymore. At present, property prices are quoted in VN dong only. Just do a search for any property for sale in Vietnam and they're all quoted in VN dong. If buyer and seller privately agreed on price in gold, then we'd never know, but the official transact must always be in dong.

It's also not legal to advertise in USD, but the government does it every day.

tdt-uae wrote:

It's not legal to transact real estate in gold. In the past you could pay for your property purchases by gold, but not anymore. At present, property prices are quoted in VN dong only. Just do a search for any property for sale in Vietnam and they're all quoted in VN dong. If buyer and seller privately agreed on price in gold, then we'd never know, but the official transact must always be in dong.

AFAIK (in the last almost 7 decades), Vietnamese have never listed the prices of their properties in gold, but the transactions were and are still conducted in both gold and currency.  The currency portion is for official record.  So, past or present, government changed but nothing has changed in real estate transactions.  Gold is still the answer, and USD is still its alternate.

Don't know where you have this idea that gold is the still the currency of transaction for real estate. Stop spreading misinformation!

tdt-uae wrote:

Don't know where you have this idea that gold is the still the currency of transaction for real estate. Stop spreading misinformation!

This might get good.  I have my popcorn ready and my money is on Ciambella.

One interesting thing is that the posts from March 2018 showing gold in the $1200 range.  Pretty good percentage move in the last two years.

Don't need to get your popcorn out because I won't be wasting my time with people who just say random stuff without any evidence to back them up. The internet these days is just full of junk.

tdt-uae wrote:

Don't know where you have this idea that gold is the still the currency of transaction for real estate. Stop spreading misinformation!

I don't spread misinformation.  As you're a new member, I'm sure you don't know that I'm part of °µÍø½ûÇø team, and my responsible is to keep the Vietnam forums free (or if not free, then there's as little as possible) of false information.

tdt-uae wrote:

I won't be wasting my time with people who just say random stuff without any evidence to back them up.

Again, as you're a new member, I'm sure you don't know that everything I share on these forums on Vietnamese culture, tradition, custom, language, way of life, etc. is 100% correct.  The reason:  I was born here, educated here, worked here, lived here for the first 22 years of my life, and now I'm living here again among the locals and surrounded by many, many relatives.  I can be wrong in many things, but never about things that are Vietnamese.

In re: gold in real estate transactions, before I left for the States, my siblings and I lived with my parents who changed houses 7 times -- meaning they bought and sold 7 houses.  My two brothers bought and sold 4 houses of their own after they got married and moved out of our family home/s.

Since I moved back here to live, my nephew bought 3 houses (he still has all 3), my niece bought 2 houses (she still has both), my great-niece bought and sold 3 houses.  In the 19 transactions which I either witnessed or knew of, gold has been the main currency. 

In 2014, my nephew and his wife bought a piece of land near Back Beach in Vung Tau.  On that land, they built a small apartment building in which my husband and I are now living.  They paid in gold, USD, and VND. 

You said you don't want to "waste [your] time with people who just say random stuff without any evidence to back them up".  I hope you will also try not to waste your time contradicting people who know more about this country and the way of life here than you ever will.

tdt-uae wrote:

Don't know where you have this idea that gold is the still the currency of transaction for real estate. Stop spreading misinformation!

Can you enlighten us with your experience in purchasing property in Vietnam.

tdt-uae wrote:

Don't know where you have this idea that gold is the still the currency of transaction for real estate. Stop spreading misinformation!

Looks like the Bangkok Post is not as well informed as you are.

*golf clap*

This from Thanh Nhien news service.


"The central bank's bullion rules combined with price swings in the gold market are starting to affect people's attitude toward the metal, particularly in larger transactions such as property deals, said Nguyen Van Doanh, 39, a real estate broker in Hanoi since 2005.

"In the past, gold prices were pretty stable, everything with a large value such as houses, land, cars were priced in gold,"  Doanh said. "Given the changes in gold prices, together with the government restrictions in gold-bar trading, it's no longer safe and convenient to use."

Nguyen Thuy Huong, 64, is marketing her five-story house in downtown Hanoi for VND7 billion ($330,000). She bought the house seven years ago for 190 taels of gold."

Old habits die slowly.

colinoscapee wrote:

Looks like the Bangkok Post is not as well informed as you are.

Thank you, Colin.  Your link is a much more solid evidence than my life story.