°µÍø½ûÇø

khanh44 wrote:

I thought to myself how my uncle is able to afford a 1.6 trillion dong car (Honda Accord) that I could buy used in Canada for $5000 Cdn or 85 million dong and these poor families were making at best as a couple 10 million dong a month.

Car ownership is a perfect example of inner party privileges. The bullshit reason for such high tax is to reduce traffic and raise money to spend on infrastructure but funny how they exempt themselves from paying and use their privileges for personal car ownership. They love driving around in their blue plates ignoring traffic rules.

Vietnam's contribution to the global supply chain is cheap labour, brutal suppression of labour rights whilst also allowing multinationals to pollute the land. Hanoi loves to copy the Beijing economic model so should look at what the Chinese do to keep wages low. They depreciate the currency so the FDI keeps coming in whilst they convert their bribes into foreign currencies and hide it in property abroad. London and Vancouver are top destinations for dirty corrupt money.

This documentary is an eye opener on where the wealthy in these parts of the world like to store their money. Considering there's a 50k USD a year limit on how much a citizen can take out of the country each year,  they get really creative shifting it to safe havens. Hedging their bets in case the party turns on them.



Anyway, I'm ranting...you'll find in these developing countries where corruption is rife, even the elite have little faith and stash their cash abroad for a rainy day.

I know Scambodia has tightened up a bit. (ANZ wouldnt even let me use my old account without an up-to-date work visa), but u still can open bank accounts there regardless and its more like 13-14%. it has likewise gone down , like VN.

I presume it variable rate??? Why wouldnt u just plonk ur loot in Scambodia ? apart from the glaring corruption/ "will i ever get it back" factor that is also present here?

MY bank, Agribank have some great employees. Managers pocketing the ATM fills for 6 months. Lending a few hundred mill to a cousins non-company etc.No supervision.

Gordon Gecko, these tards aint.

phikachu wrote:

This documentary is an eye opener on where the wealthy in these parts of the world like to store their money. Considering there's a 50k USD a year limit on how much a citizen can take out of the country each year,  they get really creative shifting it to safe havens. Hedging their bets in case the party turns on them.



Anyway, I'm ranting...you'll find in these developing countries where corruption is rife, even the elite have little faith and stash their cash abroad for a rainy day.

They are buying arts. That's how they get around the 50k USD.

khanh44 wrote:

Last night as I walked around my brother-in-law's neighbourhood I noticed poverty. 3 years I've been in Vietnam and I just noticed how people live. I guess because yesterday was a holiday lots of families at home and you could see the parents and kids at home in their everyday lifestyle.

I thought to myself how my uncle is able to afford a 1.6 trillion dong car (Honda Accord) that I could buy used in Canada for $5000 Cdn or 85 million dong and these poor families were making at best as a couple 10 million dong a month.

Than I looked at the villas and houses that cost 2 trillon dong and upwards and look inside these 20 square meters units that families are crammed into. How will they ever afford these multi trillion dollar houses on a 10 million dong a month income.

I just wonder will there ever be a middle income. How can the poor pull themeselves out of poverty? Most people pull themselves out of poverty through investments either in business or real estate. But when all your dong is spent on housing, food, education and health care there is nothing left to invest.

So I wonder where is the middle class? Because everything is just so expensive even for a middle class.

My time in Viet Nam goes back to 1969. Since 1969 or even 1995 which wasn't that much changed, the middle class in Viet Nam has exploded in numbers. Even the poor are living incredibly better lives than they lived in the 1960s, 1970s, 1990s 2000s(note, between 1975 and 1995 I was not in Viet Nam and could not make personal observations of the Vietnamese living conditions) or even the last seven years. No, the Vietnamese people do not have American or European standards of living YET. But the progress that Viet Nam has made is astonishing and who knows what Viet Nam will be like in ten to twenty more years.  Observing over a short period of a just few years just doesn't allow one to see the real progress.

I've been back to Vietnam since 2002. Seen lots of progress during those times. I've heard from stories told the poverty struggles before 1985.

Yes you're right again. The poverty I've seen is more on just income level. Families go about their business making things work with what they have.  Most families don't have savings. But they also don't have a lot of wants (economic term).

But as far as living standards I'd say it's better than most middle class in Western standards. Vietnamese seem to have more time and are happier.

The middle class in Vietnam I would say are the °µÍø½ûÇøs.

The definition of middle class varies upon culture and nowhere more so than in a developing country heavily influenced by Marxism. In America, class is defined by wealth and income. In the UK, it's also about your education and family background. The snobbiest of people here will even judge you just by your accent, and your consumption habits.

Even after market reforms in Vietnam, the free market only applies at the bottom of society. Red capitalists (people with ties and relatives in the party) are allowed to emerge in the middle whilst they keep the big industries and top jobs for themselves. What I'm saying is Vietnam is not a meritocracy, at least not in the public sector and not even in large private Vietnamese companies. It's more fair in foreign multinationals as they operate differently. Vietnam doesn't have the same social mobility more developed and less communist countries have. A minority of people there are born and inherit their jobs, if your not born with the right parents, you have to pay your way up.

If you're talking strictly about socioeconomic definitions, it's quite hard in a country with such a high income disparity like Vietnam. I would say Vietnam sits in the middle between UK and USA in it's definitions. It's becoming more about income and wealth but in the past it was also about background. For example a teacher back then had more of social standing  than a successful business person. I found this was the case back in 2004 when I first began visiting but as the economy grew, it's becoming less so. It's all just about money now.

The middle class in Vietnam I would say are the °µÍø½ûÇøs.

You get all walks of foreign life living in Vietnam. Relatively rich or poor in their native countries, moving to Vietnam where they suddenly enjoy high purchasing power doesn't instantly make them middle class in my view. It's also about how you carry yourself. Best example is I saw an American °µÍø½ûÇø riding past the Rex where everyone was queuing to get a glimpse of Obama. He rode past shouting racist abuse about Obama being a N. This guy's what I would call trailer trash in the US but just because he's living in Vietnam thinking he's rich with a higher purchasing power than the locals he's suddenly become middle class? This guy had no class! and is probably living in Vietnam because he's too broke to live in the US.

Anyway, in Vietnam there's only the inner party, outer party and the proles.

My wife's uncle (Vietnamese local) made this remark that people living in Western countries that have more than $50,000 cash are considered 'special' or successful.

And it's so true. So many people are in debt that when they retire they depend on social assisstances. It's Western life to work hard to pay our debts that we don't even think it's bad because we have nice cars, houses and 'stuff' that we think we are well off than those in poorer countries that don't hold a lot of debt but don't have a lot of materialistic  'stuffs'.

Agree, it sucks though.

On the topic of the OP only and not all this other stuff. I am always amazed how the economically impaired get taken in by these HIGH interest rates. One must at any time they are thinking to buy at these high interest rates check the current inflation rate. Once you do you will soon realize the true return is not nearly what the high interest rate appears. As he stated the rate was 8%. So one could assume the inflation rate at that time was PERHAPS 6-6.5%. So your true Yield would be about 1.5-2%. About the same you were getting in the USA at that time and in most places around the world. I know I am late to the party. This subject comes up about once or twice a year on here. No one ever learns it seems