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There will be a government subsidy, as there was with Arriva, and that will be part of the bid - its quite common for the provision of public transport to involve a subsidy, however, € 3m a month is somewhat more than Arriva were getting - I think they got 1-1.5m.

Its difficult to comment on whether the € 3m a month is a real figure or an accounting figure, as there could be a lot of one off costs dumped into the first couple of months - eg changing the signs from Arriva to TM or whatever

A lot of the losses are as a result of having to reduce the fares charged to non e residency card holders and the fact that the hired buses are very expensive and do not collect fares.

In my opinion the only way forward is to charge realistic fares and have a comprehensive bus service plus subsidy.
Then they may be able to start reducing the number of cars on the road.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

A lot of the losses are as a result of having to reduce the fares charged to non e residency card holders and the fact that the hired buses are very expensive and do not collect fares.

In my opinion the only way forward is to charge realistic fares and have a comprehensive bus service plus subsidy.
Then they may be able to start reducing the number of cars on the road.

Terry

Realistic fares...More or less than it is currently??

coxf0001 wrote:

tearnet wrote:

A lot of the losses are as a result of having to reduce the fares charged to non e residency card holders and the fact that the hired buses are very expensive and do not collect fares.

In my opinion the only way forward is to charge realistic fares and have a comprehensive bus service plus subsidy.
Then they may be able to start reducing the number of cars on the road.

Terry

Realistic fares...More or less than it is currently??

More!

It seems that one of the local bidders only wants to run the Gozo service.

So this could end up  as a stitch up with Malta and Gozo having services run by separate companies and heavily subsidised by the tax payer!

Terry

in some ways they are already separate, with different tickets and prices already in place for Gozo v Malta

I don't think charging more is going to get more cars off the roads? The Maltese will just see it as a rip off. The old prices were less and they will say there was nothing wrong with the old service (pre Arriva.)
The routes that were once 1.16 each way, were direct buses and only the tourists used them as the Maltese thought they were too much. They were aimed at the tourists, just like the 2 tier system with Arriva. I personally think it should go back to that. A standard 2.50 with a reduction for locals. Just like other countries do.

coxf0001 wrote:

Just like other countries do.

which other countries charge more for tourists ?

The 2 tier pricing (tourists v residents) was deemed illegal under EU law

georgeingozo wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

Just like other countries do.

which other countries charge more for tourists ?

Lol, I don't know, I just remember reading it when all the fuss was going on. I thought I had read that there were a couple of areas (towns) that have that system but maybe I was wrong.

I think maybe, other places get away with it with really cheap monthly tickets, which keep fares cheap for locals of which tourists can't make use of. I guess that is the sneakier way of doing it.

Just found this and I think Guernsey does it too " Mr Marlow was unable to immediately mention other places where such a fare structure exists, but said details could be given.
(An official for the company later pointed out that there were similar distinctions between residents and tourists being made in Estonia and Venice, on services not operated by Arriva. However, Arriva itself was piloting a similar scheme on the islands of Minorca and Mallorca, Spain.)"

Guernsey isn't in the EU :-)

coxf0001 wrote:

(An official for the company later pointed out that there were similar distinctions between residents and tourists being made in Estonia and Venice

from memory, in those cases it wasn't residents of a country, but residents of part of a country v everyone else, so is permitted - eg Malta could charge Valletta residents a different price to use buses in Valletta than Maltese/others living outside of Valletta

"The sources said it was unknown what sort of State subsidy the three companies had asked for as Transport Malta officials were still studying the proposals.

However, the figure is estimated to be much higher than the average €10 million a year given to Arriva"

the real problem was the fares were visible to all - as cox has said a sneakier and possibly more acceptable way of doing it would be to offer regular bus users a reduction for a longer term ticket which most tourists and not so regualtr bus users wouldnt make use of....

toonarmy9752 wrote:

the real problem was the fares were visible to all - as cox has said a sneakier and possibly more acceptable way of doing it would be to offer regular bus users a reduction for a longer term ticket which most tourists and not so regualtr bus users wouldnt make use of....

perfectly legal as anyone can buy them

I know that happens in Prague - a 3-day ticket is 310CZK, monthly is 550CZK.