°µÍø½ûÇø

It is going to cost you something, UK advisers are not supposed to advise non UK clients. 7% is excessive and the better advisers do not charge this much.

I would suggest contacting Blevin's Franks as they have offices in UK Cyprus and Malta .. they are well versed in these things and I have used them myself  for advice

@RW60 I disagree with the current comments, you don't need a Blevins Franks unless you move outside the EU/EEA.

I too am considering retiring to Cyprus in the next year or so and would suggest there are cheaper alternatives. Hargreaves Lansdowne and A J Bell are a case in point. I asked about an International SIPP and how to be paid gross as I want to be a tax resident of Cyprus (€19k tax threshold etc.). I discovered that these platforms will support existing customers living in the EU/EEA. They are very much cheaper platforms and offer considerably more investment options, as well as subject to UK scrutiny. The stumbling block for them is primarily a UK bank account. Put simply the only reason you would need a Blevins Franks is if you retire outside the EU/EEA.

I am an existing A J Bell customer and enclose their reply to my enquiry ref. retiring:

Further to your query, we wouldn’t be able to comment on the logistics of having a SIPP overseas and what is required, we can only comment on taking taxable income.

Depending on what country i.e. if you have the double taxation agreement, you can apply to HMRC for an NT tax code. Until this is received, the payments would be subject to UK income tax. If you require further information on this, I would recommend you speak to HMRC.

Additionally, we are only able to pay income to a UK bank account, we cannot pay income to an overseas bank account.

In some instances when clients are unable to obtain a UK bank account, we can accept bank accounts such as Monzo or Wise that have a UK sort code and account number.

Hope this helps.

Just to add to this. When living on Cyprus and this is your tax country you can get a DT individual from HMRC this is lodged with Cyprus tax office against your tax ref and sent back to HMRC. On the form you enter all the private pensions you have and then HMRC issue tax codings to the pension providers and they pay gross. This income is entered on your Cyprus tax return. Other UK salary can be paid gross if you complete a P85 on the HMRC website when you leave uk

@phildraper

Bang on the money sir

@RW60

There are many international brokerage accounts including large ones like Saxo and Interactive Brokers. This allows you to self-manage your funds with minimal commissions. You can buy shares in various markets and invest in units trusts or ETFs if you want to put some into managed funds. They might allow you to transfer your ISA holdings directly to your new trading account, or you might have to liquidate the ISA holdings and simply transfer the resulting funds.

You also need to check with your current provider (for your ISA/SIPP) in relation to their rules on non-UK residents. Many cannot keep you as a client once you relocate abroad and are no longer a UK tax resident. But some will let you keep your accounts, but with restrictions.

I have (or had) accounts with Saxo/IB/Ameritrade/Fidelity/Schwab, these are all pretty big names in discount online brokerages. I have half my money this way, and the other half is in property (which is less liquid, but typically inflation-proof). I also manage my father's funds, and he has an ISA and dealing account with AJ Bell (good UK brokerage). AJ Bell will keep his account even when he officially leaves the UK, but I would not be able to add to ISA. I've opened a separate international brokerage account for him in order to put in the proceeds of his house sale, and I'll figure out what of the ISA goes in there later.

My dad went through a Wealth Advisor, so there was a significant fee associated with this, AND I noticed most of the funds chosen (I'm guessing for the commission) had pretty high annual fund charges (1.5% to 3.5%). I transferred from the WA to AJ Bell, and I may need to transfer some/all to the new account in the future. Over the last couple of years, I've replaced ALL the high fee unit trusts with similar ETFs (typical annual fee 0.5% or so). Plus I put a significant chunk of the account directly into blue-chip dividend stocks (BT, Unilever, BAT, L&G, Telefonica, ENI, etc.). These have pretty good dividend payments that I set to reinvest automatically, and there's 0% annual fee when holding a stock.

Obviously, it's a lot more work for you to self-manage your account, and it can be a bit intimidating if you've never done it before. But it's pretty easy, and there are plenty of conservative stocks and funds to choose rather than plunking it all into some small-cap meme stock that catches your attention. But it's VERY inexpensive compared to a WA, and there's plenty of online guidance on DIY investing (Motley Fool, etc.).

Blevins Frank normally need over 1 mil to get their attention!

There is no specific need to move SIPPs isa etc to Cyprus. I left mine in the UK. I suspect technically as I am no longer a UK resident I should close bank accounts. NS&I are happy if you are not a UK resident and do give a bit of interest on their bonds. Not top of the tree but at lease there is no 85K limit and they allow up to 1mil in a bond. All fully protected by the treasury.  Probably 2 mil if you are married and have separate accounts.

In my experience Financial Advisors only look to max their income on your money and do not necessarily work in your favour. I am very skeptical of FA's as I have had and seen many bad experiences.

I have not seen any evidence that interest rates are higher in Cyprus than the UK and this is the main reason I left my money in the UK. My wife has 2 UK pensions with big companies and they lose money several years rather than make it. I fail to see how anyone can invest money and lose rather than make. Answer is either they are very poor investors or their fees are too high. My feeling is that the pension administrators should only be able to get their fees from profit they make on your money. That way they have an incentive to do the right thing! As you might have noticed I am not a fan of these so called financial institutions :-/

@phildraper

Hi Phil I have literally just joined the forum with the intention to move to Cyprus at the end of this year. I will be retiring and found this thread so helpful in answering the questions on ISA and UK tax. In your response you mention a DT individual what is this I haven't come across this one yet.

Guys thanks to all of yuo for the responses here really starting to understand how to go about this next chapter in my life. So let me play back what I am hearing. Come over and get a retirement visa as soon as I can. Is it possible to get this before I actually fly over???

Leave my ISA etc as they are just make sure that I can draw the money to a bank that is preferably not a UK bank? I have investments with ISA's all over the place but plan to consolidate them with IG as they have a really good platform for investing with trading hours that  extend beyond AJ Bell and Hargreaves.  I trade a lot in the US market so I found the two hour window for trading  that AJ Bell offer a bit limiting. AJ Bell still has My SIPP as don't trade with this just invest for long term growth. So I need to tell them I am no UK tax resident and get any income I want to draw paid out to my Wise account tax free. I have a few small SIPPS elsewhere and I am moving these to IG. I will check that IG can pay my drawdowns and ISA tax free.

I really like that the ISA accounts are kept as ISA as at some point we may want or need to come back to the UK. I presume we can still draw income tax free then off the ISA's.

My wife and I will get a full UK pension but my wife s only 63 so she wont get her state pension until she is 67. What is best do I leave here as a UK tax resident until she gets this State pension or does it not matter?

have made this a bit more readable..

Guys, thanks to all of you for the responses here. I’m really starting to understand how to go about this next chapter in my life. So let me play back what I am hearing:

1. Come over and get a retirement visa as soon as I can. Is it possible to get this before I actually fly over?

1. Leave my ISAs, etc., as they are, just make sure that I can draw the money to a bank that is preferably not a UK bank. I have investments with ISAs all over the place but plan to consolidate them with IG as they have a really good platform for investing, with trading hours that extend beyond AJ Bell and Hargreaves. I trade a lot in the US market, so I found the two-hour window for trading that AJ Bell offers a bit limiting. AJ Bell still has my SIPP as I don’t trade with this, just invest for long-term growth. So I need to tell them I am not a UK tax resident and get any income I want to draw paid out to my Wise account tax-free. I have a few small SIPPs elsewhere, and I am moving these to IG. I will check that IG can pay my drawdowns and ISA tax-free.

1. I really like that the ISA accounts are kept as ISAs, as at some point we may want or need to come back to the UK. I presume we can still draw income tax-free then off the ISAs.

1. My wife and I will get a full UK pension, but my wife is only 63, so she won’t get her state pension until she is 67. What is best? Do I leave her as a UK tax resident until she gets this state pension, or does it not matter?

@tomphilp Search google for the term "Double Taxation: Treaty Relief (Form DT-Individual)" You should find the gov.uk site and that has all you need to know.

@tomphilp The tax in Cyprus is zero or exempt on a lot of income. This negates the need to think tax-wise in the UK as in Cyprus it will probably be zero tax. UK rental income is taxed in the UK so no way out of that.  Any government service pensions are also taxed in the UK. As an example these incomes are tax free in Cyprus

Interest recvd

company dividends

UK state pension

UK Private pension

etc

There is a grace period of 17 years on the defense tax also. Your tax calcs in Cyprus will probably equal zero!

This does not constitute financial advise but if you look at the Cyprus tax you and your wife will probably be better off if you were Cypriot tax residents. As you mentioned a visa this will automatically kick in after 183 days in Cyprus anyway. Anything other than a permanent residence visa will only allow total 90 days out of Cyprus before being cancelled so by default you will be a Cypriot tax resident!

If you are happy with the UK companies you are dealing with I would stick with them. My investigations in Cyprus for QROPS and FA's did not give me a warm feeling and the companies generally are looking for 1 mil plus investments.

I kept most of my UK banking and just use Revolut to move funds to Cyprus and into Hellenic to satisfy the immigrations 2400 euro per month income.

I would recommend engaging a Cypriot accountant to deal with the Tax and an immigration lawyer to deal with the visa. There is a cost but unless you like sitting in government waiting rooms for hours on end it will lower the stress levels!

I suggest your wife leaves her state pension as long as possible as it will increase by 1% every 9 weeks which is over 200 a year.

@phildraper

thanks again Phil, thats all helpful too. Any recommendations for the accountant or the imigration lawyer? Better the devil you know.

@lshill

thanks I will make my accountant make the call.Dog and bark springs to mind and thanks to the UK gov she has afew years more to wait. i have been told if you become a none uk tax payer they freeze the state pension, so no cost of living increases?

@phildraper

As I understand everything hinges on getting Non-Dom Status

Is this something you could do yourself or do you recommend using a local Cyprus professional ?

I am contemplating doing a MEU1 application for myself and a MEU2 application for my partner , do you think this is a good idea?

Do you need to use a Cyprus professional every year to complete a tax return ?

Or is it an easy on-line process once the first one has been done for you ?

Who would you recommend in the Peyia/Paphos area to use and can you give an indication of charges ?

Lastly re a Cyprus tax return

My understanding is that as a non Dom °µÍø½ûÇø residing in cyprus any UK dividends and UK bank/savings accounts interest  are not taxed  in Cyprus so ,  Do you have to declare these on a Cyprus tax return and if so why ? ( as a non dom )

thanks

gordon

@phildraper
As I understand everything hinges on getting Non-Dom Status
Is this something you could do yourself or do you recommend using a local Cyprus professional ? I used a local firm. If you complete the P85 on HMRC web site that starts the process.
I am contemplating doing a MEU1 application for myself and a MEU2 application for my partner , do you think this is a good idea? Sorry I am not familiar with the various types and consequences. I obtained an MRC1 for us as we were not here for Brexit and were not making an investment.
Do you need to use a Cyprus professional every year to complete a tax return ? I chose to use the same firm I used for the first year just to make it easy as I do not have time to sit in immigration for hours and deal with the constant changes. The renewal might be simple but I have never looked into it.
Or is it an easy on-line process once the first one has been done for you ?

Who would you recommend in the Peyia/Paphos area to use and can you give an indication of charges ? I used CC&A in Paphos for immigration and tax. Michael Clayton-Gale and Xenia were the people I dealt with.
Lastly re a Cyprus tax return

My understanding is that as a non Dom °µÍø½ûÇø residing in cyprus any UK dividends and UK bank/savings accounts interest are not taxed in Cyprus so , Do you have to declare these on a Cyprus tax return and if so why ? ( as a non dom ) I am not sure but I had these declared in the UK SA and there was no tax to pay. My Cypriot return also had these on and the tax was zero. I think all income must be declared even if it would be zero or exempt. A tax professional will know the full answer.

thanks
gordon - @Gordon76

Thank you Phil

I guess one needs to meet a local that has done the same process that you intend

Since there are several ways of coming into Cyprus

Open question/s --- please feel free to answer anyone , if you have been through any of the following or have knowledge of the same

If you rent a property for a year and then go to the UK for 4 or 5 months

Are you covered in case of break-ins or any damage done to the property whilst you are away ?

Do you have to inform your landlord that you are leaving for a few months ?

Is there a clause on a standard rent agreement for 1 year that covers such an event ?

many thanks

gordon

Most insurance cover only allows 30 days absence ...but on complexes if the property is to be empty for 14 days or more you are usually required to notify the admin committee and possibly the  management company.  The cover you have when renting is dependant on your landlord having building and his contents cover and you the tenant having.your contents cover.

Absences could also impact on your residency and depends on the route you take for residency  .eg pink.slip.max absence is 3 months in 12 monthis I think .... exceeding may automatically terminate that Residency.

.

Note also you don't have to have residency to rent  a property although it does help... But then you are potentially restricted by 90/180

@phildraper

Can I ask; if you keep your pension and ISA's based in the UK but you are paying tax in Cyprus are you still restricted to the UK rules on what you do with those financial assets. eg. Are you still restricted to £20k/ year that you can add to your ISA or that you have to pay capital gains on secondary investments?

Thanks  Eddie

@whiteeddie

I left my company pension in the UK.  There is no advantage in moving it to Cyprus. I do not have any ISA's now but I would expect that there would be little use in ISA's if the tax residency is Cyprus as all interest is tax free in Cyprus. The UK ISA will limit the annual investment to 20k as that is the way it works. Better putting money in NS&I income bonds as there is no limit and the interest is tax free in Cyprus. If there is a chance you might move back to the UK then having a ISA  pot might make sense as the interest on NS&I would come into play if your tax residency is UK.

There is no tax on capital gains in Cyprus for immovable assets held in Cyprus but if you are referring to property in the UK there would be a tax liability in the UK if there was a gain providing the property was held personally and not by a company.

I thought you couldn't add to an existing ISA or take out new ones in UK If You become resident in Cyprus.

@phildraper

It sounds like I would have a similar setup to you in that I intend to keep my private pension in the UK where the investments can be managed by my US investment management providers.

Mine and my wife's ISA's would also stay in the UK so they could continue to be managed.

I guess the issue is, what you do with the money if you sell the home in the UK and rent rather than buy a property in Cyprus but if there is no tax on interest then you pop it into NS&I as you suggested.

Many thanks for the help

@Toon

That might be the case if you do not have a UK address.

Thanks Toon

Ref Non domicile Status

I read this

" Verifying non-dom status

In practice, individuals wishing to verify their non-domiciled status must obtain the relevant certificate from the Cyprus Tax Department. These individuals should proceed with the relevant application and supporting documentation to the Cyprus Tax Department. Typically, it takes around three weeks for the Cyprus Tax Department to provide an outcome for the status of the applicant."

Open Question/s

Has anyone done the above ?

Has anyone from the UK or or the EU now living in Cyprus on an MEU1 (yellow slip) received anything in writing to confirm that they are a non domicile ?

How do you know and be able to prove , when the exact date of the 17 year Non Domicile clock starts from ?

thanks

gordon

If you write or  email the Income Tax  Dept like I did they will confirm by return the actual start date

New domicile law in Cyprus

and your liability to

defence contributions

Interest earnings and dividends are exempt from income tax in Cyprus and instead liable to the "Special Contribution for Defence". Four years ago we only paid 10% defence contributions on bank interest, which along with the taxation of foreign pensions was one of the financial attractions of living here.

Today the rate is 30% on interest, 17% on dividends and also 3% on 75% of rental income.

On 9th July 2015 the Cyprus parliament passed a new law designed to attract high net worth individuals to live in Cyprus. It came into effect on 16th July 2015.

Under this law, residents who are non-Cyprus domiciled do not have to pay defence contribution on any of the income listed above. This is regardless of whether the income is actual or deemed and of whether the income is earned in Cyprus or overseas.

Domicile in Cyprus is determined by its Wills and Succession Law.

You are domiciled, or deemed domiciled, if:

    You have a Cyprus domicile of origin (and have not acquired a domicile of choice outside Cyprus or been non resident of Cyprus for the past 20 years)

    You have acquired a domicile of choice in Cyprus

    You have been resident here for 17 out of the 20 Cyprus tax years prior to the relevant year.

So, if you do not have a Cyprus domicile of origin or choice, and have not lived here for 17 out of the last 20 years, you are no longer liable to defence contributions on interest, dividends and rents (until/unless your situation changes).

UK nationals need to consider how being non-Cyprus domiciled could impact their UK inheritance tax position. Specialist advice is needed here.

This new law is very welcome news for °µÍø½ûÇøriates living in Cyprus. It is however worth noting that regardless of this change, arrangements are available in Cyprus which offer significant tax advantages, such as tax free withdrawals and roll up of growth. Take personalised advice.

Also check to see if this has changed

The 17 years start counting from the first year you become a tax resident in Cyprus

Best Regards,

Margarita Kyriakou

Tax Officer

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I recently asked an accountant for advice on how to register as non-dom and they said I would need my Father's birth certificate. Is that absolutely necessary? I am not in touch with my Father so I am hoping there is a way around this.

@whiteeddie

As I understand it, if you are no longer tax-resident in the UK then you can keep any existing ISAs, and any dividends or interest or capital gains accruing will continue to be tax free, but you *can't* add any further funds to them, i.e. you lose the £20k annual allowance.

Thanks Toon

gordon

@infinity22 I do not recall anything like that. I completed the p85  on the HMRC website and that seems to have triggered everything

@Peter Ty

Yes that is my understanding..at least it was in 2008 when we first shipped out of UK...so it doesn't look like there has been any change

My question is,

When do you become a resident of Cyprus? Is it now or the 5 years after I came over.

We're on the 3rd year of the 5 year temporary residency yellow slip visa, Alien.

I still own a property in the UK,

We're UK tax residents with government pensions and I will be getting my State Pension in May this year. All will be taxed in the UK. I have several bank accounts still open in the UK.

I have no investments in Cyprus other than our property in Paphos.

Can I still contribute to my UK based ISa"s?

Or is this not allowed with us being in Cyprus the majority of the year.?

TIA

Tim

Ps. Just looking for a rainy day holding account with  decent interest etc.

As far as I know once you have your residency document whether temporary or permanent you are resident but not necessarily tax resident or domiciled

As a resident in Cyprus under normal circumstances you can keep your isas but cannot contribute more to them. In taking residency am guessing to allow stays in excess of 90 days.. however once you get to 183 days then you've become tax resident here. Go and take some professional tax advice as you could be taxed in both places

@timhuntington

As Toon says, if you're resident in Cyprus for more than 183 days per year (as presumably you are since you say that you spend "the majority" of the year in Cyprus) then you should automatically be Cyprus tax-resident.

You would still be liable for UK tax on your government pensions (but you could opt to have your state pension remitted gross, and pay Cyprus tax on that).

Having a house in the UK may create a "tie", but probably not enough to make you UK tax-resident.

Some UK banks will require you to close your account if you tell them (or they find out) that you are resident in Cyprus.

Best to get some professional advice! Apart from anything else, if you eventually sell your Cyprus property you may be required to produce Cyprus tax returns for all the years you owned it (even if your Cyprus tax liability was nil).

@timhuntington

Hello,

Please find that once you applied for the residency - you is recognized as resident in Cyprus

We can optimize your tax on pension by non-domicile status in Cyprus and also, I can assist with tax optimization in the UK

Thanks both for quick response.

I thought from Jan 2025 all state pensions were going to be taxed in the UK. Have the goal posts changed on that one?

If so it would pay me to have that state pension taxed over here. What is the rate I'd pay tax?

I need to get some advice on all this.

Thanks

Tim